Episode 178: Black Widow + The Bourne Identity

[00:00:17] Hello everybody, welcome back to the Film Buds Podcast. This is episode number 178 and my name is Henry and I'm Paul this week we have a review of Black Widow and

[00:00:34] The new Marvel film of course and then we have a retro review of another spy film the Bourne Identity from 2002 and Then after that I figured we could touch on some of our favorite spy films of all time

[00:00:51] You know have a kind of an open discussion about that and that genre and then you know other stuff We watched so a pretty decent show from what I can I can see Paul how you doing? I'm doing well. I We were supposed to record yesterday

[00:01:08] But I asked you know for a little bit of a delay because I was just getting back into town yesterday And I I got in like an hour and a half before recording time So

[00:01:20] But we're recording today, and I'm feeling good and the trip was a good time I went to Virginia and New York The trip to Virginia was to see my in-laws and the trip to New York was

[00:01:32] Sort of just a bit of a getaway, but also for my wife to go and visit with a friend of hers So it was a good time What have you been up to? Normal week really Not too much exciting stuff pretty much the only thing is

[00:01:52] Yesterday I got off my shift at the coffee shop And I realized that I had a huge hole in my jeans in a very inappropriate place that I got I got there with it and I worked all day with it or it happened sometime during the day

[00:02:09] but sadly I had to Take those to the farm Yeah, so that was a that was a shame I Feel like you would have noticed them ripping And in the process, so I feel like it might have been an instance where you just hadn't noticed it

[00:02:24] Yeah, which makes it all the better You're welcome. I'm here to make you feel better about these things Yeah, other than that honestly not not a whole lot. I don't think So yeah an all right week, you know, yeah Yeah

[00:02:41] So all right well if there's not a whole lot else to say Paul you want to get to it? Yeah, sure. All right. Well, let's get to our review of black widow and we do have a clip So take a listen

[00:03:13] Mistakes choosing between what the world wants you to be You are Okay, so black widow is in theaters now and also on Disney plus with the premier access And it's directed by Kate Shortland It's our scarlet Johansson Florence Pugh David Harbour Rachel vice

[00:03:44] Ray Winstone ever Anderson violet McGraw Olga curry Lenco William Hurt And I forgetting anybody Not that I can think of yeah and the synopsis is a film about Natasha Romanov and her quests between the films Civil War and Infinity War So pretty simple

[00:04:10] Yeah, well, you know I guess this one had been a long time coming Yeah, long time. Yeah Paul Do you want to kick things off? I mean you're the the Marvel Marvel head of us of the two of us. Yeah, sure so my wife and I I

[00:04:29] Didn't see this one opening day My wife and I decided that we would go and see it while we were in New York and we went to the Alamo in Brooklyn and You know, it was a really nice time. We went to this park beforehand

[00:04:42] we had a lovely day and Overall, I would say that that like my experience of the day and probably like Even my time in the movie theater, you know being at an Alamo and having the Alamo experience

[00:04:55] Was probably more enjoyable for me than like the overall movie itself Not to say that the movie is bad, but I walked away from this one being like wow, this was really just okay How did you feel? Yeah, I sadly I didn't have the

[00:05:15] the preamble or the you know the prologue as you did and I liked it. I like Scarlett Johansson a lot and I like Black Widow a lot overall I enjoyed it. I think Florence Pugh as kind of everybody is saying is the standout for many reasons

[00:05:34] So overall, I mean it's just kind of simple Intro here, but yeah, I liked it. It wouldn't be top MCU for me, but it's a Marvel film So no, yeah, I think that you really hit it on the head

[00:05:49] I think that I think my biggest issue with it is that it's this kind of weird little safe movie, you know, it's not Taking any particular risk in any direction. It's not it doesn't really have its own visual style

[00:06:03] You know that makes it different. It's very much cribbing off of like the look and feel of The Captain America films and that sort of thing And so it ends up just feeling like this very sort of plate standard movie

[00:06:20] That also doesn't really feel quite as spy as I think that it wants to all of the time I do agree that the new cast I think does a great job. I think for the most part I

[00:06:32] Think Yelena is a good character and I think the way that Florence Pio played it is definitely engaging and charismatic and very likable. I Think that she gets a lot of thankless sort of jobs and lines and moments in the script

[00:06:48] But I think that she handles them really well. I love David Harbour. I You know hope that I see him again, but I doubt that I will for some reason

[00:06:58] But I enjoyed his character quite a bit. I don't know. I just I think that for me it didn't And we can get I guess more into the specifics of sort of why it didn't work

[00:07:08] I think but for me it just it didn't it didn't hit as hard as I think that it should have It felt very peace. It felt very safe. It felt like a pulled punch a little bit

[00:07:19] Yeah, and I think along with Florence Pio, I did think that the action was pretty solid because like Marvel can kind of The bar is kind of low at times and I feel like they actually did a fairly good job that kind of roped it into the

[00:07:36] Like mission impossible slightly born-esque style of action And I thought that was pretty one of one of the better parts of the the direction and now talking about the Character black widow. So like the biggest issue I think is that the movies called black widow

[00:07:54] But I find that not only does Florence Pugh kind of take the spotlight but you mostly find out about black widow through her like relationships as opposed to her own kind of journey and To me that just wasn't as interesting

[00:08:11] Yeah, and then also with Florence Pugh as much as I think she's awesome and I you know, I'm interested to see where She goes her taking the spotlight Kind of harkens back to the Marvel stick of

[00:08:27] It feels like they're taking the time to set her up for something else Because we already know who black widow is enough that we don't have to spend as much time on her as we should on

[00:08:38] Florence Pugh's character because she's gonna be in something else down the line And you know if this was a non-affiliated Standalone movie I would just say oh, it's kind of odd They kind of took had Florence Pugh be the main character or the the main focus

[00:08:54] Even though it's called black widow and I could just kind of do away with it But I think in knowing Marvel it feels I don't know commercially Motivated in that sense a little bit. Oh, yeah, it feels like a you know

[00:09:08] what kind of we need to do this to get to this kind of a thing and I think that all of that stuff definitely brings down the movie I think that the the issue that the movie has for me is that it does feel

[00:09:21] Like you said not really about Scarlett's journey, you know This is kind of the issue that we talked about with solo and I would say that I feel about this movie about like I feel about solo

[00:09:31] And the issue is that I know so much about this character. I know so much of this character's journey that You know, we kept on talking about the mission that killed Drake Hov's daughter

[00:09:42] And yet we see a little snippet of it which yada yada is a lot of things, but that's not the point I wish that it had been about that, you know, I wish that we could have seen what it was like when

[00:09:54] Nat and and Clint didn't like each other and were on opposite sides of it And why did Clint think that there was someone worth saving in this person? I think that that would have been a more worthwhile journey to tell than this kind of in-betweener story

[00:10:10] That just openly is more of a prequel film for who's about to take the mantle, you know more than it is about Scarlett's character herself and that kind of feels a little bit cheap since

[00:10:23] You know what fans have really wanted is a solo scarlet movie and we get that kind of but it's also in the context of being Like you said a setup for something else Yeah And I think that you could have set up certain things

[00:10:38] About her past and even introduced a character like Yelena or Yelena specifically, you know if you wanted By going into her backstory and showing those things, you know And I think that it still would work fine

[00:10:51] But I think that the placement of the movie in the timeline and the choice to focus on On Florence is definitely probably the thing that hinders the movie the most Yeah Otherwise I thought you know, I like scarlett Johansson a lot is that character?

[00:11:06] You know, I David Harbour and Rachel Bice I thought the whole cast was pretty solid. No real. Oh, what's up? Is this your favorite scarlet performance as? Black widow No, I think the winner soldier is my favorite. Yeah, what about you? Yeah, I was thinking probably winner soldier

[00:11:31] Maybe civil war but probably one of those two definitely one of the the Russo led performances. I think yeah But yeah in terms of the the action like I love motorcycle chases and

[00:11:45] Movies and this movie has has some of that which I like like there's one at least one or two through the the streets That of the city and I really like that There's a scene in the in a kitchen I guess it is like a hand-to-hand fight and

[00:11:59] That I love and so like the action, you know, I guess thinking about Marvel as a whole It's probably some of the better action that I've seen and I think that you know Florence Pugh really carries her own and this scenes that she's involved in

[00:12:17] Yeah, it's just you know This wasn't really a movie. I was like looking all that forward to But it was fun You know and I guess that's kind of the thing like

[00:12:31] You know, I was looking forward to it but not overly you know, I was I was kind of I Was looking forward to it for sure, but but not as much as I had been for other things And I'm I guess I'm ultimately accepting of what I got

[00:12:45] But I definitely think that it could have been a little bit better And I think that it could have been a little bit more thought out And I thought it could have done a better service to the character for sure. I

[00:12:57] Was not a fan of Ray Winston's casting. No, I Thought that he was pretty I thought that was pretty bad miscasting if only because he He really floated with that accent. Hmm. Yes, some of the accents go a little in and out

[00:13:15] Yeah, for me, I'd say like in if I was ranking like how well I thought the accent work went by From from I'll go worst to best. I guess. Okay. It's probably like Dracoff Maybe then like David Harbor

[00:13:33] Just because his I think it's probably the next floatiest for me And then it's probably like Rachel vice and then like Florence Pugh and Yeah, Natasha doesn't really ever do one. So

[00:13:45] Yeah, and also like it's that thing that is I feel like Hollywood just feels required to do But I feel like they could have lost the accents and there would have been nothing really Taken away because like I mean there are so many movies where you know

[00:14:00] They're in another country where they speak another language, but they're still using this accent and It and that it wouldn't be as much of an issue if these were like actors who you did not know But knowing that David Harbor Rachel vice they are not Russian

[00:14:17] It really makes it feel put on and does not feel authentic most of the time Yeah, especially because you know and I love David Harbor, but there definitely sounds like very particular sounds that That give away the American Underneath it as he's as he's speaking

[00:14:35] It's pretty good for the most part But it's it doesn't really have like any sort of specificity or anything behind it. It's just sort of generic Russian accent. Yeah Well, how does this rank to other recent Marvel films or just projects? I guess honestly

[00:14:56] Kind of low for me You know, it's it's hard to compare the TV shows in the in the movies But if we must you know then it's still probably I think below

[00:15:08] Loki wand division and and Falcon and the Winter Soldier for me. I think that all three of those were better Executed and had a better concept of what they were trying to do

[00:15:19] Even though some of them are very bogged down to varying degrees with setup for other things And compared to some of the movies, I don't know. It's probably for me like about down there with like Dr. Strange Yeah, it's fine Yeah, I

[00:15:38] Could have done I could have I could have Seen a better movie coming from the concept than what I finally got and that's kind of how I feel about Dr. Strange Yeah, yeah, I agree Yeah, it's I haven't seen Loki yet

[00:15:53] But I probably like it a little more than one division but maybe not as much as Falcon I Think in terms of I guess origin or it's not really an origin movie Like I think I like Captain Marvel a little more Yeah

[00:16:08] Maybe a little more than Dr. Strange, but not much So yeah, it was I mean it was entertaining there weren't many lulls or anything like that and you know I liked the the setting and the the look and

[00:16:24] The you know the the introduction of this family and all that so I mean there are plenty of it Plenty of things I liked about it. It just didn't wow me No, certainly not and honestly a lot of the the early

[00:16:39] You know like first act or so action For me worked a lot better than than like the third act action sequence Yeah, the third act kind of loses its way a little bit trust it back in a little too much Speaking of the third act

[00:16:54] Do we want to talk about the twist and how we how we liked the? The reveal Yeah, I mean we we can I mean if so I guess if you don't want to have things spoiled

[00:17:06] You can just I'll put it in the show notes and you can skip ahead a little bit All right, so Paul. Why don't you lay things out? So okay? So, you know taskmaster is this Character that gets introduced as this, you know Terminator-esque one-man death machine, right?

[00:17:25] And the whole movie they talk about Draikov's daughter and how she died and And so on and so forth and at the very end. It's finally revealed that Taskmaster is actually a sort of cybernetically Maintained resurrected Sustained what have you?

[00:17:46] Draikov's daughter and that she's alive and that she's now actually the taskmaster How'd you feel about it? I liked I guess I Preferred it without the twist Yeah For the most part. I kind of enjoyed enjoyed it just being this

[00:18:05] Like you're saying kind of terminator-esque villain and that's it just dark quick And so I feel like I don't know it's it's like again. It's kind of Marvel having to try and Humanize it in a sense or something like that. So I I could have done without it

[00:18:24] No, I definitely get that there are a lot of people who are I saw you know some of the rumpus online that the people are upset with the The plot twist and the change and taskmaster's origin. I think the big issue for me is just that

[00:18:39] It's it's so obviously Probably someone more You know largely built inside of that suit than old Gokuri lanko is yeah So then when you do that reveal and you see her in profile, she looks like Buzz Lightyear, you know proportions You know tiny little head big circular

[00:19:02] Helmet and armor around the body And I do like her a lot in general. I think she's yeah cool cool actor I think the issue for me is also that we never hear taskmaster speak and taskmaster isn't like a silent character in the comics

[00:19:18] But we never hear taskmaster speak or or anything And I think that that kind of zaps the the reveal a little bit also because You know they don't try to

[00:19:30] To give us anything with this character, you know Olga curry like it literally didn't have to be Olga curry lanko at the end No It's the most unnecessary bit of casting for someone who you know

[00:19:41] I think is is more worthy of a spot than just showing up at the end For you know a few a few quick face shots, and that's it Yeah, and now it's been too long since I've seen it but is that is that twist

[00:19:58] Similar to the one in Ant-Man and the wasp with the villain is the villain in that like is she How is she connected to somebody? It turns out that she's working with Lawrence Fishburne Okay, and

[00:20:14] Her her whole thing was that she was the child of Hank Pym's like rival or something right she was caught up in this experiment that that Now causes her agony but gives her powers It's also a little bit cribbed from that on a certain level

[00:20:30] You know and and I speaking of that movie I do really like that villain and that that character and so that it kind of made me think of that a little bit because I

[00:20:40] Would have loved to have seen more of that character in that movie because I really enjoyed all of that but anyways Yeah, so the twist wasn't something that would you know took me really out of the movie or anything like that

[00:20:52] But I think it could have been lost and there would have been it would have been potentially better Yeah Honestly, I think that there's a way that you work the story around to where the twist turns out to be Molina the mother

[00:21:06] And I think that that could have been like even potentially a more effective Shocking moment if you worked it right then Drakov's daughter this person that we didn't really get to know when they were a child other than they were a child when they died and

[00:21:21] And it also kind of I think Muddy's Clint's past and her relationship to Clint, you know This is this is reference the whole Drakov's daughter thing is referenced all the way back in the first Avengers

[00:21:33] And so it also has that soloitis thing of bringing back, you know one thing that was mentioned before and making a whole thing out of it I'm talking about you the dice and so It it's all about her trying to do this redemption thing

[00:21:51] And this was meant to be her getting out of shield And I think that it complicates that her getting out of shield is meant to be her torn toward morality If it also came at the cost of killing a child and

[00:22:02] So I think that that the reveal of it being Drakov's daughter also just sort of complicates the overall Backstory itself needlessly Yeah Yeah, so it's you know, I

[00:22:16] Don't know if I have a whole lot else to say about it. I think just as I say with every Marvel film or project Even with ones I like it almost always Hurts the movie that they're obligated to set something else up, you know And I know that

[00:22:33] There's a huge fan base out there of the movie that they love to see how something is set up for the next thing and then also how

[00:22:43] Certain things in this movie or whichever movie it feeds into the Marvel the MCU that we already have and they love all of that stuff and I completely understand that but like It drives me up the fucking wall when it does that

[00:23:00] And I wish it could just stop I know it's not going to stop But it's just like it they like this kind of fairly standalone movie it There's just always something that hurts it every time because I'm like, oh, that's right

[00:23:12] It's a part of this huge thing that we have to Discuss and point out to and it's just I mean again That's purely a personal thing and so I'm not you know if if there was a Girl with a dragon tattoo cinematic universe Paul

[00:23:27] I'd be there, but in this one. I'm not as crazy about it No, and I think the other issue is that there are ways to work it in more organically than the way this that they always choose to

[00:23:38] Yeah, and in this movie, it's not that bad. It's pretty a fairly tight movie, but yeah So there you go. No, I think that's fair. Yeah, I Had something much more cynical planned last night, but I can't remember it so I'll leave it there

[00:23:58] All right, well anything else about black widow I Watched it twice and I honestly liked it slightly less on the second time. Oh, yeah That's good All right, well out of fives two and a half Go three and a half. Oh wow very generous Henry

[00:24:26] Yeah, I feel like the shoes on the other foot this time, you know Yeah, yeah All right. Well with that one done I can put that one put that one away and let's get to our review of

[00:24:39] The born identity from 2002 and we also have a clip for that one. So take a listen What are you doing to me? What are you doing? Oh What what Look, there's a number for it back. Why was it in your head?

[00:25:15] Why was it in your head? Yeah in your head under this here? You need to rest wait, please I'm a friend. I'm your friend. Huh? My name is junk. I know who are you? What's your name? What's your name? I don't know Oh god

[00:25:44] Okay, so uh born identity identity as I said it came out in 2002 directed by Doug Lyman Stars matt Damon, uh, Franka potenta Uh, chris cooper clive oan brank hox Uh, walton goggans very briefly julia styles Very briefly indeed. Yeah Yeah, anybody i'm forgetting Uh

[00:26:12] No one that's like worth mentioning Yeah, uh and the synopsis is a man is picked up By a fishing boat bullet riddled and suffering from amnesia Before racing to elude assassins and attempting to regain his memory

[00:26:30] So this one of course, you know led to gosh, what have there been four sequels? Yes, yeah, I mean one with jeremy renner but you know, it's Blown in up into a pretty big franchise or series whatever you want to call it And

[00:26:47] Yeah, it's had quite a had quite an impact when it came out on you know filmmaking style and all that and I think it's Still had as we were just talking about with black widow. It's I feel like lots of times when spy movies come out now

[00:27:01] People will call the action born ask Yeah, if it's if it's really quick a lot of handheld and so people still reference born a lot And so paul you you suggested We do this one Do you want to kick things off or shall I um?

[00:27:19] You were on a roll. I'll let you keep going. All right Yeah, I can't remember when I saw this. I think I saw it Around the time that it came out. I think gosh what I would have been

[00:27:33] I wasn't wouldn't have been 10 yet. So I don't think I would have seen it So I probably saw a couple years later, but I'm a big born fan I really like matt daemon and this is probably

[00:27:44] Although I think I could argue that like the born automata might be as a whole a tighter More successful film. I actually think this one is my favorite This is the one that I go back to most often and I love the the born supremacy as well but

[00:28:05] I think my favorite part about this one similar to the first spider-man is the origin story I think the first 45 minutes or so is my favorite part of the movie just as in spider-man the toby maguire one

[00:28:20] And yeah, it's just the the the filmmaking style is very iconic and you know paul greengrass went on to do more of that in the The later films, but I think the born is just a really interesting character

[00:28:31] I like his relationship with uh frank potenta potenti whichever way you say it. I love the theme the the score Yeah, it's just a really it really holds up quite well. There are a couple lulls here and there

[00:28:46] But overall i'm still a big fan of it. I've seen it, you know countless times at this point No for sure I think I saw this one close to when for the first time close to when supremacy was coming out I feel like and

[00:29:03] I really really enjoyed it. I thought that it was great. I think that the born trilogy is probably One of the few perfect trilogies out there I don't think that any of the films are particularly worse

[00:29:18] than any of the others, you know, I think that they all have their own faults and their own strengths I do think that this one can sometimes burn a little on the slow side And it does have a few Of the of this sort of genre

[00:29:32] tropes and cliches, but also, you know, they weren't so so cliche at the time that that this one came out I still really enjoy watching it. My wife had never seen these movies

[00:29:45] They were ones that somehow even though they were definitely up her dad's alley just never really got picked up in the household And she really quite enjoyed it and it was great. I hadn't watched the first one

[00:29:58] In a really long time honestly and so going back and rewatching it It really held up nicely I was really really quite pleased with it And I think, you know the first one They went and they took the time to teach matt daemon

[00:30:14] You know certain things that he could you know certain stunt Moves and and martial arts and some stunt driving and things like that Or he learned the stunt driving later, but they they taught him how to

[00:30:27] Be born on camera. And I think that that's one of the big reasons that this movie really sells Yeah Yeah, totally And talking about certain sequences. I think I love The embassy sequence escape And probably one of my favorite scenes in the whole movie is the wall scaling

[00:30:50] scene I love when he's just on the side of the building and it's so quiet and it's so extended. I just feel like that's something that You wouldn't see happen nowadays I feel like there would have to be constant cuts and all these things

[00:31:04] But you just see this guy going along this snowy wall and it's just quiet And it just and then it ends with him just jumping off and there's like a little music cue and that's it I love that that sequence and

[00:31:16] The build-up from the the embassy as well is great The scene in the apartment with the pen is pretty iconic the fight with the the assassin is great The scene the whole really the whole sequence towards the end with clivoin is amazing

[00:31:31] Yeah, with the with the birds and all of that in the house. I think that stuff is awesome still And yeah, yeah, there's some other some other moments, but those are a few of the big ones No, I I think that both the embassy, you know the interior

[00:31:49] The climb out and and the car seek the car chase, you know shortly thereafter. All right. Yeah are all fantastic I think they work really really well the movie Doesn't use action, you know perpetually it is a chase movie, but it

[00:32:04] It has a lot of restraint on when and how it uses action and violence and I think that really Elevates the movie and also each sequence feels unique You know, it's not a rinse repeat of the same thing that we've gotten every single time. It's a little bit

[00:32:21] You know the you've got the close quarters hand-to-hand combat. You've got the car chase sequence. You've got this, you know Sniper, you know Sequence and I think that it's it's really effective and really smart at how it uses action

[00:32:35] And it allows us to to see how good born is You know, it's not a movie that tells us that he's the best of the best And and we just have to accept that, you know, we really get to see

[00:32:48] Just how good Jason Bourne is at what he does Yeah By perpetually outsmarting out thinking or out fighting, you know everything that he comes across But in ways that are are thought out and clever and show his skill well Yeah, for sure

[00:33:04] And you know the the sequels, you know, you could argue that the action in those movies is better, which you know, I I may agree with um like the In the second one, there's the I guess it's the second one where there's the another fight within the

[00:33:19] I guess it's a house and he has a rolled up magazine And then like in the third one There's the the fight in the bathroom with the other sass and you know, I mean so there You know are great action sequences in all of them

[00:33:32] But I still think that ones in this are pretty good and they do feed into the character as you were just saying And I talking about the end of the movie. I do like Clive Owens monologue to Jason Bourne about it's like

[00:33:50] About how they're kind of just being used as these kind of killing machines and and you know, they're just kind of winding up in this cold Mountain side and it's just like what was the point of doing all this, you know, so I like that

[00:34:05] I like Chris Cooper a lot and the whole treadstone thing. I mean people kind of Parity treadstone at this point, but I think within the context of the movie It's effective Brian Cox is awesome as always Yeah

[00:34:17] I like to see where the guy is uh assassinated through the window as he's walking by that's awesome Mm-hmm And I love Jason Bourne's orange sweater in this. I love it No, yeah the the movie It's just a very effective movie and and even though they're they're

[00:34:39] You know are Are certain things that maybe could be trimmed down for the most part You know, it sets out to tell exactly the story that it wants to and it does a really really good job at it And it it leaves things open

[00:34:53] You know for exploring more and doing more, but it doesn't bait you with them You know, it tells exactly the story that it wants it ends that story and it you know

[00:35:06] It leaves you wanting more and it leaves the opportunity for more, but it doesn't it doesn't demand more Yeah Exactly like, you know this movie Uh as opposed to most movies that come out now

[00:35:21] Like you could have not made a sequel and it still would have been a great film Yeah, you know like we could have just had the Bourne identity and that's it and It would still be very satisfying

[00:35:33] You wouldn't be thinking oh like we're not going to get the sequel so I can see what this means or that means or There might be a few little things but for the most part you watch it

[00:35:41] It's contained despite it having you know, maybe a little bit of a teaser towards the end So yeah, you know It pretty much If it ended right here then the story would be bureaucracy and bullshit went on and jason borne escaped it and and found happiness in greece

[00:36:01] Yeah Now do you have a favorite of the three? I am an ultimatum guy. I like the third one a lot, you know I know that that's a pretty a pretty stock answer. I feel

[00:36:12] But it is hard because I really do enjoy them all. I think that they're all really really fantastic And I like I really really enjoy supremacy. I know that some people aren't as fond of the of the supremacy as the others

[00:36:27] But I quite like it now. Did you see borne legacy and jason borne? Yeah What do you think of those? Oh, you know You can watch him Yeah, like I prefer legacy to jason borne Yeah, and I wish it was the other way around

[00:36:46] But jason borne is is like a surprisingly kind of like bad movie. Yeah, like born legacy You know with jeremy renner. It's like a harmless film. It's inoffensive And so like you can watch it Maybe look at it a few times and be entertained But like jason borne

[00:37:06] Especially since it brings back matt damon Uh julia styles. Yep, and then paul greengrass. You're like this should be good Because and you know that I think it was matt damon who said i'm not going to come back again unless paul greengrass Directs it and like okay great

[00:37:24] but I don't think they thought it through all that well No, that one that one's a real come down I went into it pretty excited and I left pretty disappointed Yeah, like like there are a couple parts of it that I like with you know

[00:37:38] I kind of like how he's fairly silent through a lot of the movie and I liked him I kind of like old jason borne in that but as a whole it's not very effective No yeah In this i'm trying to think of If there's any other

[00:37:55] I I just like jason borne's like kind of Spontaneous use of you know household objects and things like that And I feel like that's something that has carried on or influenced a lot of other spy films since

[00:38:09] Uh, and it just feels it feels very human. You know, it's not like here. I have a knife in my hand It's like here. I'm in my house. I'm going to use uh, you know a magazine or a You know a glass bottle or whatever, you know

[00:38:22] And so that would be the kind of realistic Choice. Yeah No, uh, and and I always enjoy that he oftentimes ends up with more of the sort of things that you would think of as Sort of a defensive weapon a magazine a book

[00:38:42] A rag, you know, he like uses like the the towel or whatever in ultimatum I also like how uh, how carnage filled at least the car chase is in supremacy. Oh, yeah, it's a final

[00:38:55] It's a good car chase. That's one of the best. I think I really enjoy that one. Yeah, and I like the The part before that where he's going through the grocery store. I guess it is

[00:39:05] Uh, I like that whole thing is and so yeah that I like that movie a lot Yeah, I I enjoy this one a lot I enjoy this one a lot. I think it's it's deserving of the of its status for sure

[00:39:19] and you know the legacy and jason born may sort of Tarnish the franchise at large, but but that original trilogy does truly stand tall not just In the spy genre, but I think in in trilogies at large

[00:39:36] And in action movies at large. I think it's really it's a top notch franchise Yeah All right, anything else about born? No, I think that just about does it All right Out of five

[00:39:53] I'll go four and a half. Uh, yeah, I'll go four and a half same for me Yeah All right. Uh, well, that's all done with And so I guess we can touch on uh, we can discuss some favorite spy films

[00:40:07] Of ours. So of course, it's a pretty you know, big genre a lot of different franchises and indie films. So Paul are do you have do you have a list or are do you just have ones that come to mind?

[00:40:20] Uh, do we want to do like a top five? I have a top five if need be Okay, let's let's do a top five format. Um, do we want to go like one one and and so on Sure. Now quick thing is the informant a spy film

[00:40:35] With mad Damon. Yes Um, I'd say I would say the corporate Espionage Since it does have espionage in the title sort of you know is included It may be a whistleblower story, but I'd say that at a certain level it is

[00:40:51] Espionage of a type. Okay. Well for the sake of conversation I will leave that one out but that would be one of my favorites. Okay It's it's you know, it's a little too comedic and and you know in its own world to really I guess fit the discussion

[00:41:05] But the informant is there for sure. Okay. Yeah All right, do you want to go start with five? Yeah, sure go down What do you got a five? Mine are in no particular order. I guess it's not

[00:41:20] Um, I you know what sure let's let's put them in order. Let me try and arrange my my order real quickly Number five. I'll go with Kingsman the first one I really enjoy that movie. I think it's Fun, I think it's

[00:41:36] It knows what it wants to do. I think it's splashy. I think it has a lot of style And it's a good little sort of send up of of In particular, especially Connery era bond and that sort of thing and I like it a lot

[00:41:51] All right, my number five is red sparrow with Jennifer Lawrence And that one it's not a perfect film. I it's not one I would give I've seen it a couple times and I don't think I would give it a five out of five, but it really

[00:42:07] For being like a big studio movie. It's very ambitious very dark I like Francis Lawrence who did he did the the latter hunger games films. And I think he really Does a good job with it. I like Jennifer Lawrence in it

[00:42:20] I love the setting and and the story that the really dark grittiness of the story and while you know, there are certain things you could You know poke holes in or whatever I get I get that but also having read the book of that

[00:42:35] I really enjoyed the movie and I think You know, it's not for everybody But I still think it's quite solid Okay. Yeah, that's a really that's a good one. Yeah All right your number four Paul number four I'll go with mission impossible ghost protocol uh Good one

[00:42:57] It's Brad Bird. It's splashy. It's fun It also has you know And I know that he's done things crazier than the tower You know the sky dot or the the skyscraper sequence from mission impossible four I know that he's done things crazier since then

[00:43:17] But I think that that is just a A really good all around Experience and and really really fun and even though I think The most recent one fallout was Absolutely

[00:43:31] Kick ass and just next level. I think that there's something fun about ghost protocol that some of the other ones don't have And I think that comes from Brad Bird I agree ghost protocol like it's got the humor and the tone of Brad Bird and

[00:43:44] Yeah, as you said, it's like it doesn't have that in the other films like there's something about it. That's really Just playful and fun Mm-hmm. Yeah Uh, okay number four Would be munich

[00:44:02] The oh, okay, steven speilberg film and you know similar to red sparrow. It's a super dark Kind of epic movie and it's I probably I think I've maybe I've seen it all the way through once maybe twice

[00:44:15] But it's it's not a movie that you just kind of want to pop on it's so serious and complex But when I saw it the first time and when I think about it now, it's I still think it's Amazing and one of speilberg's more underrated films

[00:44:29] Munich is one actually that is on my You know, I really want to watch it, but I still haven't gotten to it yet less I'd be curious what you what you think of it No, I I might Since we've talked about it

[00:44:45] I might go ahead and try and push that one up into a viewing sooner rather than later and and I'll let you know what I think Yeah, push push it up All right. Uh number three for you I'm gonna go with Hmm I think probably

[00:45:06] I'll say probably born ultimatum Okay I'll I'll put the born franchise on here I think that it's earned that right to be in the top five and I'll I'll pick what I think is the best of them

[00:45:18] Yeah, number three is born identity for me. Oh, okay. There we go Yeah, I like it you can check out our review of it Um, yeah, so yeah, I that's my number number three is born identity No, I think that's a good one

[00:45:38] All right number getting down here at number two Even though it's not my favorite of the bond films. I'm actually gonna say casino royale The the daniel cregg casino royale not the david vivid one I think that

[00:45:53] It has everything that a bond movie is supposed to have you know, it's got It's got the the great bond woman. It's got the great bond villain. It's got the great location I love the poker games. You know, I really enjoy it

[00:46:09] And I think that it's a lot of fun. So I'll say casino royale Okay, well my number two and you know, I'm I think after what you're saying so I had skyfall as my number two And you know, you could maybe call that a more

[00:46:25] Well-rounded less flawed film, but you know I just want to think of daniel cregg I think of or as daniel cregg as bond. I think of casino royale So I think I'll also for my number two will be casino royale

[00:46:39] Yeah, and it's interesting. I I'd been thinking about putting skyfall But I ended up Changing it to casino. So yeah, how about that? I yeah, I like casino royale a lot as pretty much everything you were you were saying about it Mads mekelson is awesome as always

[00:46:57] I love the blood tear. I was just gonna say that. Yeah, love that Love the poker games love the the really gritty fight sequence sequences Like even just an opening in black and white with a guy in the bathroom amazing love that

[00:47:14] The opening in black and white the crane Sequence where they're jumping from crane to crane like it's it's fantastic. It's great Yeah, oh and then also the chris cornell opening credit sequences. I love a lot Yeah, and even green is great Yeah, tremendous. Yeah

[00:47:33] All right number one paul for you tinker taylor soldier spy Oh All right, i'm gonna backtrack here i'm gonna do a little loop Um, I love that movie. I love gary oldman. I love the book. I love the george smiley character He is a perfect embodiment of

[00:48:01] the the spy Of the little gray man and I think that it's such a good movie with such a good payoff and I really really enjoyed that movie Damn it Okay, so what we're All right, everybody bear with me here. So we're gonna do a little

[00:48:21] Moving around all right, so we're gonna push up all of We're gonna push up all my choices Back one. All right, so red sparrow will become an honorable mention. All right, okay born identity is Or you know munich is five born identity is four four casino royale

[00:48:44] I'll put that as three Um, and then because I did did want to mention i'll do a double here mission impossible rogue nation is my number two Okay, um, I love I mean, I you can talk about the action

[00:48:57] I I love the motorcycle chases in that movie are incredible and I I love rebecca furgusson Um, and so that one actually is I think my favorite of the the franchise And then so that's that's number two And tinker taylor's number one

[00:49:14] Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah So yeah, I I agree. I think that movie I saw it. It was what 2012 when that came out I think 2012 or 2011. Okay

[00:49:26] Yeah, I saw that when it came out in in theaters and it was just around the time that I was starting to get interested in movies in a more serious way and

[00:49:36] Even though I didn't love it at the time. I was like, huh, this is like this isn't michael bay like this is interesting um It's as yeah, everything you said I tom hardy is so good in this. It's one of my favorites of his it's so

[00:49:53] it's just so mysterious and compelling And multifaceted and it's so quiet too. That's what I love about like some people call it boring But like if you sit with it and really try and get into that story it's

[00:50:09] I still find new things to discover when I watch it now and i've seen it countless times Yeah, when you sit down to parse through it, you know, everything is happening in the dialogue and in what these characters are saying

[00:50:21] And in trying to figure out for yourself. What's true and what isn't and where the blind spots are for the characters Uh, this is also a bit of a sentimental note as well on the movie. It's it's the first movie that I ever saw with my wife

[00:50:36] Uh, we went and we saw it years ago when it came out in theaters. So yeah Yeah, this is also one of my favorite mark strong performances Yeah, honestly the whole cast is great like no one for me is

[00:50:50] Is off. I think that the whole the whole cast is is tremendous yeah There's yeah, we should review that at some point because there are a lot of little things that I love Yeah, so that would be my number one as well. I I love that movie and

[00:51:05] I wish there was more of them, you know or something is something like it Yeah, I mean John Le Carr Who wrote the books he he did one Trilogy of George Smiley stories and then he's he rebooted the whole thing and started again with the Carla trilogy

[00:51:26] Which starts with tinker taylor soldier spy It's been adapted twice the first time was as a miniseries starring alec guiness Who most people know as obi one from the original star wars trilogy And or from bridge on the river kawai is another place that people know alec guiness

[00:51:48] And they did I think it's like the first book and the third book are what they always do And so they did the miniseries of the first book and the third book for alec guiness

[00:51:59] So far we've only and we probably only ever will get the first book for Uh this you know, I don't think that we're going to get any of the sequels which is a real shame But there are Six george smiley stories

[00:52:14] The next most infamous one outside of the carla trilogy is probably the spy who came in from the cold Which was also adapted right? That's a good one And yeah, I guess a most wanted man was another with philip seymour hoffman

[00:52:29] Uh, yeah, that's another lochare story. Yeah. Yeah So, yeah, it's I mean it's it's awesome. It's um There's a million things I could say about it, but uh, it's deserving of of its number one status No, absolutely. Yeah

[00:52:48] All right any other any other spy films that come to mind any Um, I'm surprised we didn't mention burn after reading. I mean that's uh Yeah

[00:53:00] No, you know, I think that it's a good genre. I think that it's I think sometimes people treat it a little bit limited in its scope, but um I think that it's I think that it's a really great genre and I think that

[00:53:13] It's due for a shake up, you know, it's been cornered in the market By a few franchises for a long time Um, I think atomic blonde is a really great one as well and I look forward to seeing hopefully more of those But who knows? Yeah

[00:53:28] I also enjoy that the fast and furious films eventually just became spy films Yeah Oh, have you seen bridge of spies? Not yet. Okay. That's a solid one. That's kind of like more in the in the tinker taylor Zone like quiet very much a dad film Yeah

[00:53:50] No, I had that sense. Yeah Uh, all right. Well you want to end off with some pics of the week Yeah, sure I've been watching a lot of like animal documentaries on discovery App okay discovery plus. Um, so I've watched like one called um dynasties

[00:54:11] That's all about like different animals trying to Make sure that they preserve their bloodline And so like the second episode is penguins The first episode is a series of chimps, but one chimp in particular david and the one

[00:54:31] About penguins was interesting and I learned some things that I didn't know But the the chimpanzee one went fucking hard like it was Next level crazy Essentially what ends up happening, you know slight spoiler alert is in the middle of the night david gets jumped

[00:54:52] By the other men in the pack And he is torn apart like this man gets absolutely Decimated and then he comes back The man still wins the day it's the ultimate comeback story I was stunned So and he got messed up. I'm talking like fingers gone

[00:55:19] I'm talking like wounds to the groin area like this man got messed up and he came back And it was fantastic. It was it was great. Nice. I also watched jackass meets shark week And I think you can go on youtube

[00:55:36] And you can find a clip of the big thing that happened in the episode Which is one of the jackass guys got bit by a shark Oh, I heard about that. Yes. And so if you if you don't want to watch the whole thing

[00:55:49] I think that you can watch at least that portion of it on youtube Nice And so it might be worth the watch if you want to you know

[00:55:57] Enjoy some some pain in human suffering and see a human get bit by a shark while being an idiot around sharks. Yeah I guess so I guess chris hemsworth is doing that too I he's he's yeah, he uh it wasn't um

[00:56:10] I can't remember if that one was for discoveries shark week or if that one was for like, um Nat geos Like shark fest. Yeah, or whatever it is What about you? Oh, uh

[00:56:26] Not a whole lot this week. Uh, I I did watch the the mlb all star game Which was a lot of fun the other day other than that I rewatched x-men days of future past

[00:56:38] Oh, is my my favorite of the the franchise. I still think it's it's awesome Couple little things nitpicks, but other than that, I think it's It's the best of that franchise and then I also rewatched x2 Which is my second favorite and it's still pretty solid

[00:56:56] There were a couple points in the middle that I'd forgotten about that were like very exposition dumps But still enjoy it still love Hugh Jackman And I love the the whole sequence at the end where he kind of discovers everything about his kind of torturous

[00:57:14] You know origin and all that Then rewatched insomnia last night the christopher nolin film with al Pacino and robin williams and it's a it's a solid murder mystery It's not it's lesser nolin for me, but I still think it's a really cool

[00:57:31] Movie especially if you want to see christopher nolin not have 200 million dollars to work with You know, it's a pretty tight simple story very character driven, but it's not a big spectacle So that was solid Then I rewatched vertigo the alford hitchcock film which

[00:57:52] I I still enjoy a fair bit, but I do not get the like Super high status this movie gets like afi has it as like their top film of all time or something or it was at some point um like to me it's there are

[00:58:08] A half dozen better hitchcock films than this easily um, and so I don't Maybe if someone sat down and explained it to me. I don't really want them to do that, but if they did I can maybe see it, but I still think it's entertaining

[00:58:23] It's interesting to watch this woman and especially for the time this kind of Somewhat suicidal woman in terms of her behavior. I think that's kind of Was kind of shocking for the timer or at least thinking about it. It might have been but still interesting still very

[00:58:43] mysterious and strange, but very compelling. Uh, just not I don't think it's um his best And I think that's about it What do you think about vertigo paul? Um, it's fine. Yeah I like high anxiety a lot yeah, the melbrooks uh

[00:59:04] Hitchcock comedy. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one Yeah, other than that, I don't think I have a whole lot else. Uh anything else for you paul about anything No, not really. I watched Loki also Next week we're going to do space jam and the sequel Christ, yeah

[00:59:27] And then do you want to do loki the week after that? Sure. All right, cool Yeah All right. Yeah, so I guess that is about it for this show So yeah, uh as paul was just saying The new space jam and the first one for next week so

[00:59:47] you can you know Keep an eye out for that. Um, and you can stay updated on Facebook, twitter and instagram at film buds and also the film buds com for all that stuff on you know more information and all that Good stuff. So Stay tuned

[01:00:03] Yeah, well paul. Thanks as always man. Uh, it's I'm glad you had a A nice strip and everything so uh, yeah Yeah, thanks, uh, you know for having me and and for For going along with the the theme for the week I I think that

[01:00:21] I think that it was a lot of fun, you know to to sort of see a big splashy spy movie next to something That's a little bit more grounded. Yeah. No, no for sure Uh

[01:00:32] All right. Well, yeah well, we we hope you enjoyed it as much as we did and we'll see you next time